Milieu of Me

First DEREK I LOVE IT.  I hope you know that when discussions like this come up, one of us always says, “I wonder what Derek would say.”  You rock the cashbah.   You are right, we do enjoy a good debate, and as such - here is the rebuttal.

Homeschooling is very popular among conservative, fundamentalist Christians.

Good grief.  I guess I probably am one of those.  However, wiki defines this as follows:

fundamentalism is a term with differing meanings and definitions.

The term fundamentalism was originally coined to describe a narrowly defined set of beliefs that developed into a movement within the US Protestant community in the early part of the 20th century. These religious principles stood in opposition to the modernist movement and espoused the strict adherence to and faith in religious “fundamentals”.

The term “fundamentalist” has since been generalized to mean strong adherence to any set of beliefs in the face of criticism or unpopularity, but has by and large retained religious connotations (especially since the Iranian revolution, when Islamic fundamentalism became a term used to explain the political Islamic movement based on fundamental Islamic beliefs).^{[citation needed]} The collective use of the term fundamentalist to describe non-Christian movements has offended some Christians who desire to retain the original definition. “Fundamentalist” has also been used pejoratively against those who hold an intransigent set of beliefs. The term has been used to characterize religious advocates as clinging to a stubborn, entrenched position that defies reasoned argument or contradictory evidence

Wow.  I could start a whole other debate right there.  I believe the following;

1.  The bible is true.  Always no matter what.

2. See number one.

So I guess if that goes against other denominational views of how the bible is interpreted,  call me a fundamentalist.  I believe that God wrote that bible through the writers that wrote it and I try to follow it but fail miserably a million times everyday.  I hold my self to a very high standard, but it’s a good one.

I guess I don’t really see the need to say fundamentalist because, well, it’s kind of hoighty toighty my friend.  :)  In all seriousness though…I know what you’re trying to say.  I do have to agree with others that it may be limiting your audience a bit.

Just as it is impractical for one to build their own roads, sewer system, and power plant, it is impractical for one to take on the duty of a child’s teacher in all subjects for every age level.

I agree. Luckily, homeschooling is looking a bit different these days.  There are so many ways to get outside influence, including hiring a teacher to teach that this may become the exception the rule.  My relatives in laws are homeschooling their kids in a program where they are in a classroom setting at a community college somedays and at home others.  She finds it very manageable, and agreeable to her particular situation.

I do have to throw in the argument, that I would myself rather bumble through geometry than have a recent college graduate (like my cousin) reading the stuff the night before and teaching.  Ms. Motsinger anybody?

And one could also argue it’s a big philosophical leap from sewers to simple math.  Or complex math for that matter.  For some it may not be.  I would like to think that if I as a homeschooling parent where in over my head I would be humble enough to know and seek assistance.  Homeschooling looks a lot different than it did even five years ago.  Parents are educating themselves. and their children.

Technology and human collective knowledge have progressed to the point where we must depend on others to help us out.  This includes teaching.  I can choose not to depend on the city to provide my water, but my quality of life will be significantly lower, if not outright unhealthy.   I can choose to try and teach my son Geometry, but in reality, I will fail and end up telling him to read the book.  If he doesn’t understand the book, well, he’s just out of luck, unless he’s a genius.  Where does this leave the non-genius children who have inadequate teachers?  The homeschooler will argue that there are plenty of under-qualified teachers in the public school system.

 Yep I do argue that.  I agree with you though.  This is a valid point.  Somewhere kids get lost in the system, homeschooling or private.  I guess I would rather have them fail and have no one but myself and God to answer to for it.  I as a Christian would hope God could provide resources that would step in where I have failed.  I also know that my husband was pretty good at Geometry, so was my Dad, and I would think I could call in the reserves.  Again, there are resources.

I guess there’s also the argument what if you and the kid are both bad at geometry?  I guess I would feel better about my child struggling under my supervision than getting lost at school.  I think there are more ways for a parent to identify this in their child, who they know and can more quickly and aptly respond.

Parents need to be involved with their child’s education.  For too many parents, school is “daycare with benefits.”   Not many are willing to take on the responsibility of keeping teachers personally accountable.  They’d much rather have congress whip together a No Child Left Behind Act that institutes ineffective standardized testing and sacrifices deep learning experiences for learning what bubbles to fill in on the test. 

ABSOLUTELY.  You have my full support on this.  Too many kids are home alone after school, then their tired parents come home, feed them and send them to bed.  Calls from school are inconvenient and just another thing to deal with.  It’s a fundamental break down of our society, and it’s horrendous.  I can’t imagine what teachers at public school deal with, with parents like these.  It must be awful.

An ideal school system would involve parental and student feedback that weeds out ineffective teachers and sets policies for what is taught. 

Ideal is a subjective word.  Ideally for me is very different from ideally for you.  You also have to remember people who’s value systems are different would be setting the standard.  Not necessarily bad, but often without standardization the subjectivity can go wild.  There has to be a balance, and honestly ultimately biblical standards are completely left out.  They can’t even say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, something I said EVERY DAY in grade school.  Ask any kid on the street, I guarantee you they don’t know it.

Furthermore, it is very telling that the students who typically do the worst in school are the ones whose parents are not involved.  The problems with the public school system are not going to be solved by acts of congress, just as poverty will never be eliminated through welfare programs.  It requires community participation.

Absolutely.  I believe you’re right.

While withdrawing from a social institution may seem to provide short-term benefits, the effects are always negative for all parties.

I would argue that this isn’t neccessarily true.  I believe first that homeschooling can provide LONG TERM benefits.  Train Up A Child In The Way He Should Go; And When He Is Old He Will Not Depart From It. - Proverbs 22:6.  If my child is seeing me, day in and out practicing and receiving the love of Christ, that will instill in him a bounty.  Something he can one day harvest.  It trains him not just in Christianese, but in moral character.  I don’t aruge that all public school and teachers are immoral.  I am just saying the oppertunity for impact multiplies significantly.  That ultimately has a positive impact on society.  I have a child, in society, preaching the Good News, and walking out his faith.  A lot of these people, even one can have a positive impact on everything.  If he saves one person, if he helps one person, if he loves one person…. They don’t have to change the world, or even all of society.  Think pay it forward, if you will.

The poor always suffer the most as a result.  For example, as middle class white people withdrew from urban areas to live in the suburbs, urban neighborhoods and schools severely deteriorated.  They’re caught in a downward spiral of needing investment, but lacking the tax income to provide that investment.   The only way out is for affluent neighbors to invest.

I’m sorry, sidenote…all I can see right now is Bowling for Columbine and his funny little cartoon about white people.  I think you’re right about this, but I think we’re starting to realize this mistake.  In all metropolitan areas around the country, revitalization projects are in full force, turning this trend.  In Minneapolis ALONE, this is a HUGE force right now.  I know the schools are still suffering - as my second mom goes to a lot of these schools and tried to teach character to their kids.  It’s an epidemic for sure.

Similarly, if all concerned parents withdraw from public schools, the majority who are left in the public schools will be left to rot in an unchecked system of under-qualified teachers teaching moral ambiguity.  Wait, that’s already happening… 

I don’t know about that.  I however have no good argument.  I would think that there are still people who are passionate about the school system and want change and are rooting for it.  I just don’t know that the answer is to send your kid to school for the greater social good.  It’s a personal decision for sure, but as a Christian I just can’t see sacrificing a solid biblically based education to prove a social point.  I’m not sure you’re saying that, but I wonder….if this did happen would it draw attention and promote change too?

Why do we care about society?  The typical right-wing Christian mindset says that we are all sinners and that the world is hopelessly lost to corruption, violence, and poverty.  Since there is no hope for society, better for me to live in a shack in the woods where I can read my bible and live a Godly life, far away from the influence of the evil world.

Don’t count me a typical right wing Christian then puh-lease.  I don’t think this is necessarily true of everyone.  I know I personally hold true the idea of being in the world but not of it.  As John 17:14-15 says.  You’re right - we’re not supposed to hole ourselves up and hide.  We are supposed to be careful what we let influence us and our children.  It’s again, a careful balance.  The ENTIRE world is sinful.  We ourselves are sinful.  It’s just another choice we make to sanctify ourselves…not a choice to isolate.  We can’t win people to Christ, the Great Commandment, if we’re not able to relate and converse with people.  Christ Himself, became human, suffered for this reason.  He didn’t have to do that, but He did because He LOVES us.  We cannot lose sight of God’s love for man.  If we do, we missed the whole point.

Jesus’ first recorded miracle is actually a clue to us as to what His plan is for us:

On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

“Dear woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied, “My time has not yet come.”

His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

When I read this, I gasped and said, “OH NO. Derek just used Jesus at me.” :)  The boy is still laughing at me.

This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.

This story is very rich in symbolism and John gives us some clues.  First, the miracle happend “on the third day.”  Second, the scene is a wedding.  In the Old Testament, marriage was used symbolically to represent Israel’s (the bride) union and close relationship with God (the groom).  Third, wine was used by Old Testament prophets to represent peace, fruitful labor, and blessings - heaven on earth.  Essentially, this story boils down to servents bringing heaven on earth by following Jesus’ commands.

I agree so far.

This story flatly contradicts the idea that the world is doomed to sinful decay.  We have a part in doing God’s will to bring heaven on earth.  Jesus initiated the moment where heaven and earth meet - are wedded - and bring hope to a fallen world.

I think we basically agree.  I don’t think that negates the idea however that sin is present, and that it itself, the nature of what it is is decay.  I don’t think that means that “all will perish”  There is a call to bring the hope to the world absolutely, but I have to go back to my being in the world but not of it idea.  You can walk as Jesus did, among the fallen.  However you walk a fine line here.  I honestly am not qualified to argue much further here, but I have to say these two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Conservative Christians typically focus solely on their relationship with God.  They strive to fulfill the first, greatest commandment - to love God with their whole soul, mind, and strength.  However they many times miss the second part of that commandment - to love others as themselves.  I spent most of my life ignoring that commandment and then most of the rest of my life only focusing on the first part of it.  It’s easy to start a “God and me club,” but it’s hard to truly love others as God loves them.  In fact, as you read the bible, you realize that if you are to truly love God, it follows naturally that you will love what he loves - justice, healing, the orphan, the widow, and your pointy-haired boss.

You’re so right about this.  I’m walking through something similar right now, in fact I think that’s why I’m having such a hard time with a sinful nature right this moment.  It’s hard to remember the mean lady at Gamestop who is mean to you about wanting a WII isn’t exempt from this.  Or those who have hurt, abused you even.  It’s a struggle to remember Christ’s love for all.  I again think you have to remember however that you’re generalizing a lot here.  I don’t think MOST conservatives do this, I think we all do.  It’s a realization in our walk to higher purposes.  God can do so much more with someone who realizes this.

This brings us back to society.  What is our mission as Christians who are trying to do God’s will and restore creation to its creator?  Do we hide in our homeschools or do we try to help steer society toward what is good?

I again don’t think one negates the other.  Why do we have to sacrifice to bring about good?

GOOD THOUGHTS DEREK.  I love it.  I also loved reading peoples responses to your blog too.  It’s a very good topic for discussion.